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(Inactive) Web Best Practices: Teleconference Details

Teleconference details

Agenda

1. Mobile Web Accessibility Best Practices Group

2. Hide/Show tab like panels best practices
  • http://web20semester.cita.illinois.edu/example/nav-home.html
  • One of three panels is shown and the other two are hidden based on selecting the “Announcements”, “News & Events” or “Virtual Advising” link
  • What should be a headings?
  • How should the document linearize?
  • Should these be buttons?

Next Steps for HTML Best Practices

Minutes

Mobile Web Accessibility
  • JW: We just released the new site
  • HR: Congratulations
  • JW: We have run into problems with Blackberry’s
  • JW: We may have to turn off the mobile view for desktops
  • JW: Blackberry’s hit us more than anything else
  • MS: Did you back out of accessibility features
  • JW: We have not done anything with accessibility, we have been mostly just turning stuff off and that has broken the structure of the page
  • JW: We turned off bread crumbs, because they were something else
  • MS: HR have you tested?
  • HR: I am trying to use an emulator, or borrow a pervasive device
  • JW: Some browsers do and some don’t
  • HR: I am still learning, promoting people use link text to make things clearer, but this doesn’t work as well on mobile devices
  • HR: I have more questions than answers
  • MS: There was a demonstration of iPhone accessibility today
  • JW: I have not seen the demo
  • MS: We could see if TJ could help us test
  • MS: This is new to us
  • MS: It is very different than the desktop reader
  • MS: We might be able to do more testing
  • JW: OK
  • JW: We need to do some basic stuff over the next few days
  • MS: I was noticing on the landmarks are support to some extent
  • MS: The link issue could hide using CSS some parts of the links
  • HR: MS does it allow the use of header navigation, but I have not found the header navigation
  • MS: There seem to be a limited number of gestures, and some key missing ones
  • MS: I don’t make any claims of knowing it well
  • NH: I sent a link to the list for voice over
  • MS: The rotor allows you to pick navigation options
  • MS: We will play more with it
  • MS: As far as accessibility iPhone is the only one people talk about it
  • TJ: There is symbion “Code Factory”, and talk works on Windows Mobile devices
  • TJ: Keyboard based phones don’t seem to have screen readers for them
  • MS: I phones seem to be the place to start
  • TJ: There is some work being done Droide and speech, SAtoGO is one product
  • NH: TalkBack is available on the Droide
  • TJ: TalkBack is very limited functionality, it doesn’t work with Droid Browsers
  • HR: I tried a few months ago and could not even use it to make a simple call
  • JG: JW are them some questions?
  • JW: We have not had time to look at all the design issues, now that we have product out will be coming back to some of the design issues
  • HR: Top of the page or the end of the page for main content for bread crumbs
  • JW: We have not looked at that
  • HR: Are there multiple tabs in the applications
  • JW: Are you talking about tab with browser ot application
  • HR: Either or both, browser and apps have tabs
  • JW: You can create tabs in apps
  • JW: What we have done with our apps that each link takes you to a new page
  • NH: There is some pretty good information in Nielson/Norm guidelines on mobile app development

Hide/Show Panel Example
  • HR: Users need to know they are tabs
  • HR: The state of the tab is not indicated
  • HR: When a tab is selected, there needs to be some text
  • HR: The focus is moved to where the content starts
  • MS: If you move people to the target on the page and change them to links
  • MS: If you have a list of the sections, do you need to know that there are three items
  • MS: It is hard to mimic real tabs
  • MS: It seems to be simpler to us links with targets
  • JG: Display none or display offscreen in that model?
  • MS: Offscreen model to hide content
  • MS: This also makes it irrelevant about hide show
  • HR: You are saying that they could use the buttons or headers?
  • MS: Yes
  • HR: You don’t want to hide it?
  • MS: I want to hide visually
  • HR: I am concerned that people will see something different
  • MS: If you are talking about “Announcements” people would see the term is different
  • HR: I work with my wife a lot and I see stuff she doesn’t see and we are confused
  • HR: Talking about an example, if I ready something from the announcements tab and she doesn’t see it
  • NH: Is the solution is to hide the content
  • HR: We need to know which tag is selected
  • NH: Keyboard navigation model, lots of tabbing
  • NH: When I tab to announcements I want to see the announcements
  • MS: In the ARIA tab panel model what ever has focus should show
  • MS: We had problems with tabs in Flash, ARIA clearly says that up and down arrow preventing reading content in flash
  • MS: This may be a problem for non-screen reader keyboard users
  • MS: the screen reader user doesn’t know the difference
  • MS: If I am in virtual mode in a screen reader I want to read down
  • MS: The keyboard model is for forms mode and not a virtual keyboard mode
  • MS: When the content is static content it breaks down since there are not focusable content
  • MS: Some accessibility experts say you can’t have non-focusable content in these tab panels
  • MS: In the web world you look like a tab panel, but semantically a heading and content, being a tab panel is really not essential
  • HR: We had similar issues with Blackboard, the user did not see any changes
  • HR: To me they are tab panels
  • HR: With some difficulty you submitted a form and then you see the form again, you see the same tab all over again
  • MS: What is suppose to happen when you submit a form?
  • HR: it was an announcements
  • MS: Is the issue verification?
  • HR: The issue was having all the tabs visible to the screen reader
  • JG: I think it is information overload
  • MS: In screen reader mode I go through linearly, visually you try to minimize veritical scrolling
  • HR: There is still to much information
  • MS: Does it matter that you cannot see it
  • HR: Blackboard information is pretty heavy
  • HR: There is sometimes no clear heading navigation
  • MS: How do know when tab 1 panel ends?
  • HR: In our approach it is not there
  • MS: It seems like you always need information on where things start and end
  • HR: It is important to have only the visible content
  • MS: Aren’t you confusing users when content is missing
  • MS: So how would you go?
  • HR: If there are two many items I could use page down
  • MS: You might end up in student success stories
  • NH: In your approach you need to understand that you are dealing with tabs
  • JG: We will continue this discussion next week

Participants